Debate on Purgatory - Negative Response to Affirmative Questions

Question # 1: What is your basis, aside from your say-so, for claiming that “the Jews whom Judas Maccabeus is praying for is [sic] guilty of idolatry?

It's in 2nd Maccabees 12 :40: But under the tunic of each of the dead they found amulets sacred to the idols of Jamnia, which the law forbids the Jews to wear. So it was clear to all that this was why these men had been slain.

If I am not mistaken, idolatry is a mortal sin even by your church's standards. Since it is a mortal sin, I find it ironic for Judas Maccabeus to pray for the dead. Therefore, 2nd Maccabeus 12 doesn't help you prove Purgatory due to this inconsistency.

Question # 2: About 1 Cor 3:10-15 you made the claim below: ///There is no purging going on but testing. The works of a man is being tested by fire and not the man himself. If the work withstands the fire, the man gets a reward. But if it does not, the work is burned but the man is still saved. We don't see any cleansing of the man. We also don't see any refining towards the man. Whether your works remain or burn, you're still saved./// Were it true that the passage says nothing about the purification of individuals, and that all it means is that works are tested, why does NOT Scripture make this distinction?

First and foremost, you have to consider the immediate context. In the entire chapter 3 Paul was referring to the works of the believers, not the sinners.

For we are co-workers in God’s service; you are God’s field, God’s building. 1st Corinthians 3:9

The preceding verses speaks about their services or works:

What, after all, is Apollos? And what is Paul? Only servants, through whom you came to believe—as the Lord has assigned to each his task. I planted the seed, Apollos watered it, but God has been making it grow. 1 Corinthians 3:5-6

That being said, the purpose of the fire in this context becomes clearer: it is for testing. That's very clear in verse 13.

Question # 3: Were it true what you said about the canonicity of 2 Maccabees being in question because:

///Also, the inspiration of the books of Maccabees is doubtful in this verse: The writer does not know if his book is well written or poorly done. He also recommends drinking water mixed with wine to aid in writing. This has no inspiration of the Holy Spirit///

do we, then, throw out of the window all of St. Paul’s letters for the same reason?

Clarificatory points to explain the question:

St. Paul forgot whom he baptized in 1 Cor 1;15.

In 1 Corinthians 7:40 St. Paul wasn't sure that his teaching was inspired or not.
In 1 Cor 7:10 St. Paul makes it clear that certain teachings he's passing along are "not I, but the Lord" speaking (1 Cor. 7:10), whereas in other cases, "I, not the Lord" am speaking (cf. 1 Cor. 7:12). If there’s anything that ahould tell us a Bible passage is NOT inspired, this is it, yet why is it that nobody argues that St. Paul's writings should be excluded from Scripture?

As to Paul forgetting whom he baptized, it really doesn't affect the inspiration of Scripture. Does it serve a purpose even if Paul remembered all people he baptized? The context of 1st Corinthians 1:10-17 is about unity, its not about writing Scriptures.

As to 1st Corinthians 7:10, Paul was expounding what the Lord Jesus Christ taught during His ministry on Earth (Matthew 5:32). On the other hand, 1st Corinthians 7:12 was not among the the direct instructions from the Lord Jesus Christ, it's an added instruction after His resurrection.

As to 1st Corinthians 7:40, I don't see a problem here as it does not involve Scriptures. We don't see any signs of doubt.

Question # 4: Were it true what you’re saying about Jesus simply saying in Mt 12:32 that there is no forgiveness when you blaspheme against the Holy Spirit, what, then, might the “age to come” Jesus is saying here?

Clarificatory point to explain the question:

Mt. 12:32 has Jesus clearly saying that speaking against the Holy will not be forgiven, not in this age or the age to come. Were you correct in saying that all Jesus meant here was that speaking against the Holy Spirit will NEVER be forgiven, why didn’t he simply say “And whoever says a word against the Son of man will be forgiven; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven. Period”? If this sin cannot be forgiven after death, it follows that there ARE others which CAN be.

You would have to read how the other gospels wrote it:

"But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; they are guilty of an eternal sin." Mark 3:29

And everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven. Luke 12:10

There is your "period" in Luke 12:10. So when Matthew says "age to come" it refers to time. And those who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit is guilty of an eternal sin. No matter what the blasphemer does, this sin will never be forgiven.

Question # 5: What is your basis, aside from your say-so, that the thief on the cross went directly to heaven without passing by Purgatory first?

Clarificatory points to explain the question:

http://socrates58.blogspot.com/2006/12/thief-on-cross-are-sacraments.html

Paradise in this verse (Lk 23:43) about the thief on the cross (if interpreted literally) is not even referring to heaven, and indeed could not, since Jesus was not yet in heaven on that day ("today . . ."). He was crucified on Friday and didn't rise from the dead until Sunday. In fact, He didn't ascend to heaven until forty days after that (Acts 1:3,9-11; cf. Jn 20:17)!

First, Jesus said to the believing thief "today" you will be in paradise with me. He did not say "after forty days". "Today" can be any time during the same day and not necessarily at that moment.

What is paradise? The apostle Paul and John give us an answer:

I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know—God knows. And I know that this man—whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, but God knows—was caught up to paradise and heard inexpressible things, things that no one is permitted to tell. 2nd Corinthians 12:2-4

I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God. Revelations 2:7

So paradise is Heaven and not Sheol as your reference put it.