Steve Ray (a Protestant turned Roman Catholic) wrote an argument on illustrating their veneration to Mary in this article from his official website. He made a parallel between the Ark of the Covenant and Mary, mother of Jesus. Click on the link to see the pictures of comparison.
For those who don't know about Mary and the Ark of the Covenant parallel argument, Roman Catholics believe that Mary is the Ark of the New Covenant since she bore Christ. The ark in the Old Testament has God's presence. This parallelism is used, among others, to justify the Immaculate Conception. Since the ark in the Old Testament has to be built with pure or refined materials, Mary has to be free from sin to be a worthy vessel for Christ.
But for the above mentioned article, it seeks to clarify (and justify) that they don't worship Mary while at the same time maintaining their parallelism between Mary and the Ark. Here is Ray's argument:
First, the glory of God is revealed “above” both arks (the Gold Box and Mary).
In the first, the glory is revealed as the Shekinah Glory Cloud; in the second, the glory of God is revealed in his Son Jesus Christ, God Incarnate.
Do we worship the Ark? No, of course not! Jews didn’t worship the Old Ark, nor do Catholics worship the New Ark. Jews did not worship the box and Catholics do not worship Mary. Jews worshiped what was ABOVE the box — which was the presence of God; Catholics worship what is above the Ark, that which is sitting in Mary’s lap. Both Jews and Catholics venerate and appreciate the ark, but the worship is reserved for what it contains and reveals
My initial response is that Steve Ray is misleading us here with the word worship in order to be consistent with the Mary-Ark parallel. It is true that the Jews don't worship the Ark's structure, but how about doing some other acts of reverence? Let's substitute the word worship with the word "pray" and repeat Ray's parallel. Do the Jews pray to the Ark? No, they pray to God. Do the Catholics pray to Mary? Yes, they definitely do! Thus, the parallel made by Ray falls to the ground.
Of course every Roman Catholic would argue that they don't worship Mary but they only venerate her. Veneration is to give honor and respect. While it is true that people honor and respect one another, veneration doesn't include people kneeling and praying before each other.
Be careful of mixing terminologies.
For those who don't know about Mary and the Ark of the Covenant parallel argument, Roman Catholics believe that Mary is the Ark of the New Covenant since she bore Christ. The ark in the Old Testament has God's presence. This parallelism is used, among others, to justify the Immaculate Conception. Since the ark in the Old Testament has to be built with pure or refined materials, Mary has to be free from sin to be a worthy vessel for Christ.
But for the above mentioned article, it seeks to clarify (and justify) that they don't worship Mary while at the same time maintaining their parallelism between Mary and the Ark. Here is Ray's argument:
First, the glory of God is revealed “above” both arks (the Gold Box and Mary).
In the first, the glory is revealed as the Shekinah Glory Cloud; in the second, the glory of God is revealed in his Son Jesus Christ, God Incarnate.
Do we worship the Ark? No, of course not! Jews didn’t worship the Old Ark, nor do Catholics worship the New Ark. Jews did not worship the box and Catholics do not worship Mary. Jews worshiped what was ABOVE the box — which was the presence of God; Catholics worship what is above the Ark, that which is sitting in Mary’s lap. Both Jews and Catholics venerate and appreciate the ark, but the worship is reserved for what it contains and reveals
My initial response is that Steve Ray is misleading us here with the word worship in order to be consistent with the Mary-Ark parallel. It is true that the Jews don't worship the Ark's structure, but how about doing some other acts of reverence? Let's substitute the word worship with the word "pray" and repeat Ray's parallel. Do the Jews pray to the Ark? No, they pray to God. Do the Catholics pray to Mary? Yes, they definitely do! Thus, the parallel made by Ray falls to the ground.
Of course every Roman Catholic would argue that they don't worship Mary but they only venerate her. Veneration is to give honor and respect. While it is true that people honor and respect one another, veneration doesn't include people kneeling and praying before each other.
Be careful of mixing terminologies.
I am a Catholic and my understanding of the Ark of the Covenant is that it is the prophecy of Christ Sacrifice.
ReplyDeleteThe Main reason for the Jewish temple was a place of sacrifice. God removed Adam and Eve shame by clothing them with the skins of an animal. The first animal was sacrificed by God for man and was prophetic of God's future Blessing through the shedding of blood.
The very universality act of sacrifice attests to its primeval origin and its role as prophecy.
1)Christ's sacrifice is the fulfillment of all that animal sacrifices at their best could predict. 2)The sacrifice of the Mass is the continued expression and realization and representation of the Sacrifice of Calvary. I am talking about Divine Liturgy and not Novus Ordo Mass which is invalid.
Remember at the death of Christ, the heavy veil was rent into two, thus indicating that
we now have access to God through Christ.
The Ark spoke of Christ and not Mary. So I do not understand thier reasoning. It is understood that Our Lady is the mother of Christ, but how this is a type of Mary is unclear to me.
The Ark was made of wood covered with gold and thus spoke of Christ. Christ is the Way to God (Aaron's rod), Christ is the Truth (Ten Commandments), and Christ is the Life (Manna).
To pray before a Crucifix or sacred image (kneeling and praying)is not idolatry for the prayer is to Who they represent, Not the image itself. So be careful of mixing terminologies. Idolatry is to worship anyone or anything that is not God. The First Commandment urges honor of images of Christ and the Saints.
ReplyDeleteA person sins by indifferentism when he holds that one religion is as good as nother or that all religions are equally true and pleasing to God, or that one is free to accept or reject any or all truths. This sounds like a Protestant to me!
[To pray before a Crucifix or sacred image (kneeling and praying)is not idolatry for the prayer is to Who they represent, Not the image itself. So be careful of mixing terminologies. Idolatry is to worship anyone or anything that is not God. The First Commandment urges honor of images of Christ and the Saints.]
ReplyDeleteThat's what every Roman Catholic is reasoning today. It's no different with the idea when one looks at a picture of a naked woman in a Men's Magazine and an Art Museum giving a reason of "art appreciation".
If they are praying to the one being represented by the image, then the image would no longer be necessary.
[A person sins by indifferentism when he holds that one religion is as good as nother or that all religions are equally true and pleasing to God, or that one is free to accept or reject any or all truths. This sounds like a Protestant to me!]
That is barely Protestant because we are centered on Christ, not religion. The truth can be found in Scripture.
[You have not understood Catholic doctrine on the subject. The Creator alone is God. Mary is as much a creature as any other human being. But whilst she is as much a creature as we are, we have not been honored by God nearly as much as she.]
ReplyDeleteI think you need to go back to what Christ said on who is the greatest in His Kingdom.
[Mary has not been elevated by the Catholic Church to a rank quasi-divine, or even remotely divine.]
But the actions of every Catholics state otherwise.
[Her prayer and intercession have a special efficacy in winning for us the protection of the Omnipotent power of God and His infinite mercy.]
None of the apostles in the Bible ever taught this principle.
[The principles of the Catholic Church are not man-made, nor can her constitution, given her by Christ, ever be changed. At the Protestant Revolt, however, men left the Catholic Church and set up new constitutions for themselves, and their sects can be called indeed man-made religions. I call it a social club and not a religion.]
History tells us that many of your doctrines are not traceable in the early church.
[The ERRORS of Protestantism:
1) There is no such thing as the Protestant faith. There are hundreds of varieties of Protestantism, each variety containing some true things mixed up with its own particular errors. All Prots secs are WRONG!]
Would you give your support for that statement?
[2) In general Prots says that Scripture is a sufficient guide to salvation, although Scripture says that it is not; it denies the authority of the Church established by Christ; it has no sacrifice of the Mass; it does not believe in confession; it denies Christian teaching on marriage; it rejects Purgatory, and very often its advocates refuse to believe in Hell. Produce a doctrine taught by you and I will produce another Prot. Church which denies it, save perhaps the one donctrine that there is a God of some sort.]
They way you argue is you presumed that your church is the correct one and then proceed to mock her opposition. May I ask you, have you done a thorough scrutiny of your own church before you bash others?
My job is done here so this is my last visit. [But I will leave you with this:
If one seeks God and His truth one will find it in the ONLY place that it is found, the Church of Rome. And "degrees of truth" mean no truth at all. Either the BVM was assumed body and soul into Heaven or not. To deny this is not to have a degree of truth; it is to deny truth. So ALL believers agree and ALL believers are in one Church... Ours.---Vin Lewis ]
Uhm, this sounds like a fallacy. But anyway, feel free to come back.
Thanks for your comments.
They found the Ark of the Covenant where Moses placed the 10 Commandments, in a cave under Golgotha.
ReplyDeletehttp://arkofthecovenant2.blogspot.com/