Here is a very short article in a Catholic website about Onesiphorus. He is a believer in Christ who help the apostle Paul in the ministry. His feast day is September 6 year 81. It's understood that he died in the year 81 AD (also stated in Wikipedia).
Here is also another Catholic website about the apostle Paul. According to the article, he died in year 64 AD (though there are other sources says he died in year 67 AD).
Okay so why am I so concerned about the year of death of these two saints? Well, Roman Catholic apologists make use of 2nd Timothy 1:16-18 to justify praying for the dead who are in Purgatory as Paul seemingly prayed for Onesiphorus:
May the Lord show mercy to the household of Onesiphorus, because he often refreshed me and was not ashamed of my chains. On the contrary, when he was in Rome, he searched hard for me until he found me. May the Lord grant that he will find mercy from the Lord on that day! You know very well in how many ways he helped me in Ephesus.
Here is how Scripture Catholic does "exegesis" of that verse:
Onesiphorus is dead but Paul asks for mercy on him “on that day.” Paul’s use of “that day” demonstrates its eschatological usage (see, for example, Rom. 2.5,16; 1 Cor. 1.8; 3.13; 5.5; 2 Cor. 1.14; Phil. 1.6,10; 2.16; 1 Thess. 5.2,4,5,8; 2 Thess. 2.2,3; 2 Tim. 4.8). Of course, there is no need for mercy in heaven, and there is no mercy given in hell. Where is Onesiphorus? He is in purgatory.
But from what we just read earlier, Paul died in year 64 (or 67) AD while Onesiphorus died in year 81 AD. So common sense will tell us that Paul died first before Onesiphorus. Therefore, Paul was praying for a man who was still very much alive.
Some may argue that even if Onesiphorus was alive why would he be needing mercy if he is already a believer and thus, a hint of Purgatory. In the event Onesiphorus died, Paul prayed he be granted mercy God "on that day". Well, it's really too much of an assumption. Just look at the range of meanings of the word mercy (eleos). You must take in to consideration these meanings and not merely content yourself with the phrase "on that day".
So those who are using 2nd Timothy 1:16-19 to prove purgatory are really interpreting it to suit their own taste.
Here is also another Catholic website about the apostle Paul. According to the article, he died in year 64 AD (though there are other sources says he died in year 67 AD).
Okay so why am I so concerned about the year of death of these two saints? Well, Roman Catholic apologists make use of 2nd Timothy 1:16-18 to justify praying for the dead who are in Purgatory as Paul seemingly prayed for Onesiphorus:
May the Lord show mercy to the household of Onesiphorus, because he often refreshed me and was not ashamed of my chains. On the contrary, when he was in Rome, he searched hard for me until he found me. May the Lord grant that he will find mercy from the Lord on that day! You know very well in how many ways he helped me in Ephesus.
Here is how Scripture Catholic does "exegesis" of that verse:
Onesiphorus is dead but Paul asks for mercy on him “on that day.” Paul’s use of “that day” demonstrates its eschatological usage (see, for example, Rom. 2.5,16; 1 Cor. 1.8; 3.13; 5.5; 2 Cor. 1.14; Phil. 1.6,10; 2.16; 1 Thess. 5.2,4,5,8; 2 Thess. 2.2,3; 2 Tim. 4.8). Of course, there is no need for mercy in heaven, and there is no mercy given in hell. Where is Onesiphorus? He is in purgatory.
But from what we just read earlier, Paul died in year 64 (or 67) AD while Onesiphorus died in year 81 AD. So common sense will tell us that Paul died first before Onesiphorus. Therefore, Paul was praying for a man who was still very much alive.
Some may argue that even if Onesiphorus was alive why would he be needing mercy if he is already a believer and thus, a hint of Purgatory. In the event Onesiphorus died, Paul prayed he be granted mercy God "on that day". Well, it's really too much of an assumption. Just look at the range of meanings of the word mercy (eleos). You must take in to consideration these meanings and not merely content yourself with the phrase "on that day".
So those who are using 2nd Timothy 1:16-19 to prove purgatory are really interpreting it to suit their own taste.
So those who are using 2nd Timothy 1:16-19 to prove purgatory are really interpreting it to suit their own taste.
ReplyDeleteHow do we know that the Books in the NT are really written by the writer Real writers Themselves? How to we even know that the Hebrew OT or the koine Greek NT that was dugged up was Real? it may have came from other sources? is it possible that non jews wrote the OT? what are the chances that ordinary persons like us, living in those times, could possibly have written the books as and observants point of view? or just a group of persons, trying to make a story book?
There's really no telling with certainty the things people believe, regardless of what religion they are in. If we could go back in time, we can also ask Abraham a similar question that how sure he is that it is God whom he talked an no other supernatural being.
DeleteThat's the beauty of faith.
hmm.... are u citing, that like a time capsule of some sort was intently buried? i think We have to determine first if they ever lived by record or possibly have died.
ReplyDeleteSticking with the topic, I think you should refer that suggestion to the Roman Catholics as well. They're the ones who said Paul prayed for his dead friend.
DeleteHere is a very short article in a Catholic website about Onesiphorus. He is a believer in Christ who help the apostle Paul in the ministry. His feast day is September 6 year 81. It's understood that he died in the year 81 AD (also stated in Wikipedia). (Soliman)
ReplyDelete==========
If we focused on just one reference ill give more RELIABLE reference coming from the mouth of your Lolo's
basa!
J. N. D. Kelly (1909-1997) (Anglican):A Commentary on the Pastoral Epistles, London: A&C Black, 1963, p. 171: On the assumption, which must be correct, that Onesiphorus was dead when the words were written
mas UNA pang nasulat ni Kelly ang libro nya kysa Wikipedia...ehehehe! at hindi magandang referensya ang wiki..^_^
And Paul wrote his letter to the household od Onesiphorus dbah??
How would it be a dead can wrote for somebody???
For your info, Fixme. Your idol Fr. Abe Arganiosa quotes from Wikipedia as well: http://thesplendorofthechurch.blogspot.com/2010/02/refuting-eli-soriano-on-name-of-church.html
DeleteWhile he recognizes that Wikipedia has flaws, so is JND Kelly.
But from what we just read earlier, Paul died in year 64 (or 67) AD while Onesiphorus died in year 81 AD. So common sense will tell us that Paul died first before Onesiphorus. Therefore, Paul was praying for a man who was still very much alive. (Soliman)
ReplyDeleteehehehehe!!..
And this proves that Saints are not in the state of sleeping (or ano pa yung tawag nyo state sa mga namatay nah) waiting for the resurrection...right???
ehehehehe!
Why because you said Paul died EARLIER THAN ONESIPHORUS... they you said that:
Paul died in year 64 (or 67) AD while Onesiphorus died in year 81 AD. So common sense will tell us that Paul died first before Onesiphorus. Therefore, Paul was praying for a man who was still very much alive. (Soliman)
PAul is praying for the Living...right?? ehehehehe!
butas2 yung mga arguments mo kuya...
I don't have a doctrine of saints in a state of sleeping. As far as I know, Paul was alive when he wrote that letter.
DeleteYour arguments are weird.